Mohammed Hijab and the Trinity 6-10

David Wood Mohammed Hijab debate

This continues our previous series on Mohammed Hijab’s (MH) falsehoods and bad arguments against the Trinity used in his debate earlier this month with David Wood.

6. Augustine re-wrote the Bible?

MH contradicted himself by admitting that “John believed Jesus is divine,” while claiming  John 17:3 to be a denial of his divinity, and that “the Father is the only true God.” This was, apparently, a “thoooooorrrrrn in the sidddddddee” [sic] of the early church. So Augustine (d.430AD) had to change the word order of the Scripture to make it appear more trinitarian than it really was. Really?

John 17:3 says:

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

And here is what Augustine wrote in his Homilies on John:

“‘And this,’ He [Jesus] adds, ‘is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.’ The proper order of the words is, ‘That they may know You and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent, as the only true God.’”

Firstly Augustine didn’t change the Scripture, he exegeted it, and his exegesis was correct. This is clear from the context. John 17:1-5

After Jesus said this, he looked towards heaven and prayed:

‘Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.’

Which human prophet has ‘authority over all people’? Who apart from YHWH grants eternal life? If Jesus was merely a creature, how did he preexist with God in glory before the beginning of the world? The context clearly affirms Jesus’ divinity, in line with the Gospel writer’s firm belief.

See this video from Acts17 Apologetics for a lengthier analysis of MH’s cut-and-paste treatment of John’s Gospel.

7. ‘Jesus doesn’t tell the man in Mark 12:29  “believe in me as co-equal, co-eternal God,” instead he refers him to the shema’

Why would Jesus say “believe in me as co-equal, co-eternal God”? He wasn’t asked “are you God?” Rather he was asked what the greatest commandment was, and his answer was correct. However, as discussed earlier, the shema  (Deuteronomy 6:4) doesn’t preclude Jesus’ divinity; secondly, Jesus tells the teacher that he is “not far from the Kingdom of God.”

This is the Kingdom that Jesus claims as his own in the very next chapter of Mark:

“At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.  And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, and from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.” (Mark 13:26 )

The Son of Man has authority over angels? The Son of Man knows who are the elect and who are not? The Son of Man comes in clouds? According to the Qur’an, the only one who comes on the ‘clouds’ is Allah (Sura 2:210).

When Jesus calls himself  the “Son of Man” he is referring to himself as the  figure in Daniel 7:14:

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,a]coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

The Son of Man is clearly a divine figure.  And Jesus alludes directly to these verses at his trial in Mark 14:62:

“Again the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?’

62 ‘I am,’ said Jesus. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’

The reaction? “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” (Mark 14:64)

8. “The Trinity is in the Bible now!”

MH brought up Matthew 28:19 not realising that by doing so he scuppered his earlier point about Mark 12:29. Because it begs the question, if Jesus was just a prophet with a unitarian view of God, why didn’t Jesus just command his followers to believe the shema with his last words on earth? Instead Jesus says:

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, BAPTISING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

This is a very weird thing to say for a unitarian prophet, as well as being highly misleading. And if it’s misleading that calls into question Jesus’ moral character. Either that, or perhaps Jesus was not a prophet of Unitarianism.

9. Why isn’t Luke 9:26 a Trinitarian formula?

Luke 9:26 reads:

Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.” Here is Jesus in a group of three! So why don’t Christians worship a Trinity of the Son, the Father and the Holy Angels? 

Where does Scriptures say the holy angels are eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and to be worshipped as God? The Bible in fact teaches the opposite. What does the angel say to John in Revelation 19:10 when he tried to worship him:

“…I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.’

Both these points show that MH doesn’t want to seriously engage with the Biblical text.

10. “No-one talked about the Holy Spirit being God in the first 300 years of Christianity……that discussion is completely gone!”

Aside from the fact we get the doctrine of Trinity from Scripture alone, not church tradition, this is a completely false claim. For a detailed analysis, read this article by Sam Shamoun.Here too are some quotes from Vocab Malone’s excellent rebuttal, worth watching in full:

Clement of Rome (AD 96), Letter to the Corinthians:

“The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the LORD Jesus Christ; and Jesus Christ was sent from God…they went forth in complete assurance of the Holy Spirit…do we not have one God ,one Christ and one Holy Spirit poured out upon us?…For as God lives and the Lord Jesus Christ lives and the Holy Spirit..”

Polycarp of Smyrna (150AD)

“I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son with whom to you and the Holy Spirit be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen.”

Justin Martyr (163-167 AD)

“In the Name of God the Father and the Lord of the Universe and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water.”

Tertullian (155-220AD)

“….he is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and appearances are understood, under the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

“The Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God and each is God..”

Next up: Elijah, Ruach and more…

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5 thoughts on “Mohammed Hijab and the Trinity 6-10

  1. If I were Mohamed Hijab, I would not have wasted my time and effort to debate some trivial things by playing along with a nonsensical game the Trinitarians play. I would go straight to the point:
    (i) First, what’s the “Name” of the person of Spirit in Matthew 28:19 for baptising any Trinitarian? None knows, not even Jesus nor the Father, let alone David Wood, Sam Shamoun, or Pope, Athanasius, Justin Martyr, Ireneaus, Augustine, or Paul.
    None of the Bible’s verses ever tells what the Name of Spirit is.

    Trinitarian baptism has only 2 names.

    When it comes to the topic of the Trinity, you ask the Name of third person first. Why? Because actually there are only two Named persons there.
    Why would one waste his time to debate the Trinity if he can easily win when he asked the third person’s Name?

    (ii) Secondly, “I am” usage by Jesus: Why do the Jews not take the stone at all when hearing a blasphemy Jesus utters, as he claims to be the great “I AM” the good shepherd, who is a direct reference to Jehovah in Psalms 23:1? Curious? Weird?

    (iii) Thirdly, Is Jesus the Father? In John 20:28 Thomas calls Jesus “the” God of mine. Does Jesus concur with the Oneness Pentecostalism or Modalist heresy? There’s a hint from the early Trinitarian circles and citations how they avoided to use the theological argument of John 20:28 from Thomas, because they realise or know of a bad consequence for that: Jesus is the person of Father is the person of Spirit himself.

  2. Circular Fallacy of co-equality: Three persons are equal, but certain persons are more equal than others.

    By borrowing George Orwell quotes, “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”, we can deduce the silliest fallacy of Trinitarian’s hypostasis union:
    Nature of the Father is nature of the Son, yet the nature of the Father is invisible and transcendental, whereas the nature of the Son is contrarily so visible, touchable, audible, approachable, per 1 John 1:1.

  3. Similarity of Three signs of Judgment Day in Hadith and the Book of Revelation:
    – slave mother gives birth to her master in the future: the woman and her son in Rev 12 (Book of Revelation is about the future, not History of the past).
    Rev 12:5
    And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    – naked person rules the world: Babylon the whore who gets stripped down and burned all over.
    Rev 17:16
    And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    – shepherd rushes to build high places: Antichrist (Son of Perdition), the beasts, false prophets and wicked kings build the high places where the Babylon sits.
    Rev 17
    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

  4. Hatred in Christianity:
    Lk 14:26
    If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
    – Hatred of all in Luke 14:26 is made unbelievably as a preliminary requirement “before” becoming a Christian (being a Christ disciple).
    Jesus clearly uses the word “Hate”, not “Love less”.
    On other hand, in Islam, there’s no requirement whatsoever to hate anyone, let alone to love less, for a person “before” becoming a Moslem. Also, in Q.5, v.5 a Moslem male can love and marry the women of Ahl Kitabs. In Hadith, Prophet Muhammad befriends Muqawqis of Christian Egypt.

    Moreover, being truly opposite of Luke 14:26, in Q.31, v.15 one’s pagan family should be still respected and befriended after converting and becoming a devout Moslem. There’s no hatred involved.
    Q.31, v.15. Q.31, v.15. If they struggle against thou to commit idolatry of which thou have no knowledge, then do not obey them; however thou should still treat them kindly in this world.

    Maududi, Tafhim al-Qur-an, Sura 66th.
    The other lady, Hadrat Mariyah, had been presented to the Holy Prophet by Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt, in A. H. 7 and she had borne him his son.
    Holy Prophet sent to the rulers of the adjoining countries was addressed to the Roman Patriarch of Alexandria also, whom the Arabs called Muqawqis.
    When Hatib bin Abi Balta took this letter to him, he did not embrace Islam but received him WELL, in reply wrote: I know that a Prophet is yet to rise, but I think he will appear in Syria.

    – If the family Hatred in Luke 14:26 were to be directed “selectively” to a pagan family who is “enemy” of Jesus, still that way of sick hatred would have contradicted another Jesus’ Golden Rule: “Love thy enemy”.

    There are apparently two contradictory Jesuses in Gospels, like 2 figures of Jeckyl and Hyde in one:
    In Gospel of Matthew: Love thy enemy.
    In Luke Gospel: Hate thy enemy, hate thy family and hate thy friends.

    Jesus may be author of love and Golden Rule, except when he becomes so hateful without a reason of everyone.

    – The family’s hatred in Luke 14:26 is a general commandment, without any exception nor any condition whatsoever, it is the full hatred without a cause.
    Even each Christian man is commanded by Jesus to all-out hate his Christian family: his Christian parents, his Christian wife, his Christian kids, his Christian friends, before being truly a “real” Christian.

    Perhaps, that’s a reason why certain Christians show their hateful attitude so much to Arabs.

    – The family Hatred in Luke 14:26 can be far more devilish into a cruel extent of hating the brothers and friends (neighbors), thus it contradicts a royal Law “Love thy neighbors” and “Love thy brothers”.

    – There are two major exceptions for Golden Rule:
    (i) When a Christian happens to be a slaveowner, he is given the right to oppose the Golden Rule, per Luke 12, by exerting violence and physical abuses on his slaves, because they are his “properties”, thus it is including on his wife and children.
    Lk 12
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    (i) When a Christian happens to be a member of the tyrannical rulers, he is given the right to oppose the Golden Rule, per Romans 13, by exerting terrors, vengeance, violence and death.
    Rom 13
    4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

  5. Do the infidels think so naively with a typical Islamophobic prejudice that our Islam is a religion of power, lust, wealth and women? A Big No, No, No thrice.
    Abi Dawud Book 14, Hadith 2510
    Narrated AbuHurayrah: A man said: Messenger of Allah, a man wishes to take part in jihad in Allah’s path desiring some worldly advantage? The Prophet said: He will have not reward. The people thought it terrible, and they said to the man: Go back to the Messenger of Allah, for you might not have made him understand well. He, therefore, (went and again) asked: Messenger of Allah, a man wishes to take part in jihad in Allah’s path desiring some worldly advantage? He replied: There is no reward for him. They again said to the man: Return to the Messenger of Allah. He, therefore, said to him third time. He replied: There is no reward for him.

    In Qur’an, it is described so clearly that if there’s any Moslem warrior whose combative attention or focus has been distracted so badly to seek – or even to avoid (in unnecessary burdensome anxiety) – some possible temptations of the beautiful blondes (such as women of the Roman captives) during Jihad, then he is counted as a misguided person under a scourge of Fitna:
    Q.9, v.49. And among them is he who says, Permit me and do not tempt me. Unquestionably, into the trial they have fallen down. And indeed, Hell will encompass the disbelievers.

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